Sent from https://goops.com Nouns Governance Pool

Everything that needs to be said has been said. Thank you Noun40 for the great write up.

Read a lot of deep dives on this - especially what Noun 40 had to say - and feels like this is going to help keep Nouns weird in the best way for the long run (or at least try to!).

So season 3 here we come!

Excited for the next era of Nouns. Thanks to the Verbs team for all the hard work in putting this together

The show must go on ⌐◨-◨

reVoteWithReason from 0xfc218f

(noun40 voting via agora) the reason to add the fork mechanism is not to pay off arbitragers or to invite ppl that we don't agree with to leave. the reason to add the fork mechanism is to enable the factions that remain to coordinate with more trust. let me elaborate. a fundamental tension that nouns has had to navigate from the very beginning of its existence is the fact that money buys influence in this supposedly public domain culture. culture is subordinate to money, explicitly. the deep rooted nouns fan who understands the culture better than anyone else has no say on what nouns art becomes canonical via droposals. that voting power is determined by wealth. this feels like a design flaw to many that are fans of the culture. this isn't anything new. the tension between art/culture and money/business is everywhere. nouns just happens to have its own version of this tension. this existential tension really hit its peak for me earlier this year when I had to come to terms with the fact that the more financially minded folks within nouns will likely always end up with more votes. it's not a dynamic driven by the arb opportunity. the arb thing is just a side character in this whole story (though we give it disproportionate attention). this dynamic was brewing way before the arbers showed up and is simply driven by the fact that influence is bought in the first place and those with wealth are more financially minded. I've always viewed nouns as a public art & public software movement. I feared as governance started to tip over that ppl viewed nouns as such a public goods movement might just have to fold and give up if the majority starts ruling tyrannically with a different agenda. we could all attempt to sell our nouns in the secondary of course and try to regroup but who would buy hundreds of nouns at once? especially a version of nouns nfts that's experiencing mass exodus. at this time period (early this year) tensions were at their highest imo. the two sides of nouns would keep seeing shadows at every corner and assumed only the worst intentions of each other. what ultimately gave me peace is the fork mechanism. once we landed on this direction and the verbs team started implementation I was able to put away my existential fears and start engaging within governance with a more cooperative mindset again. it fundamentally put both sides, the soon to be voting majority (finance) and the voting minority (culture), on an equal playing field. I'm not saying that the fork mechanism will necessarily cause a fork. my hope and expectation is that the fork mechanism's existence will allow for more good faith cooperation b/c both sides can gain from the other. the finance side can consent to spending more knowing that if it gets out of hand they can fork and leave with their share of the treasury. the culture side can get over the feeling of being ruled over and get back to enjoying and building culture in good faith knowing that they too could exit and continue with their share of the (smaller) treasury if things get really bad. what I'm ultimately saying here is that I would benefit from the fork mechanism. not only just some opportunistic arbitrageur or some theoretical potential minority of the future but me here and now. this is why I'm voting FOR this proposal. lastly, just to address the view that adding this fork mechanism would lead to endless arbitrage attempts. it might sound obvious but it's worth pointing out that the arb only exists when a positive gap between book value and auction price exists. unless you think auction price is going to be down only (which I fundamentally don't believe since there will be a price level where ppl buy nouns for the "art" the same way ppl buy crypto punks) then spending alone will gradually close the gap. just a steady auction price and a steady spending rate will inevitably result in the arb opportunity going away. of course that doesn't mean it's gone forever. whenever we experience a really elevated auction price that later then crashes we can end up in this place again. but that's more like every 4 years (rough crypto cycle) rather than constantly as many fear. yes there might be a quick "exit" (not really a fork) right after this mechanism is implemented. but the fear of profiteers shouldn't stop us from fundamentally improving our governance. we should take the step forward. I'm excited for season 3.

sent from voter.wtf

The only way out is through.

Nouns cannot be stopped, so long as there are those who still believe.

We do future Nouners a service by ensuring their tools are robust: there is always a path for collective coordination with minimized frustration.

To the extent there is friction or capital lost to some possibly only seeking to enrich themselves in making this change, we are paying a price for lacking a more robust design at the outset. That's OK. These things are hard to anticipate, and in many ways we are lucky to have this problem.

And even those who came only seeking their own profit, they too have served the DAO, in the end. God bless you.

sent from voter.wtf

Thank you Noun 40 for all the context that you've authored and shared! As a newer participant in the game of Nouns, it helped me inherit a nuanced and optimistic perspective on this proposal. I'm sure it was super helpful to those who have been embedded in the community as well. 💖🙏

reVoteWithReason from seneca.eth

whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.. and if it kills you, then it was never meant to be. onwards to season 3!

Hear, Hear.

Plus a huge thank you to Elad and David for their diligent work on this important update, under pressure. <3

sent from voter.wtf

Poll failed to meet vote threshold.

FOR - 19 VOTES

eltonpenguin | "seems incremental, but good"

toady_hawk | "Thank you to David and Elad for their diligent work on this under pressure and duress."

kwikgamedev | "Fork yeah! LFG"

AGAINST - 11 VOTES

profwerder | "Although I appreciate most of the upgrade features, I disagree with Objection-only period and the fork itself and therefore am voting against. Although it's probably time to just hold our noses and get the fork over with, I would have rather have seen these individual pieces of the upgrade discussed.

Although this feature will be off at first, I have grave concerns about this: "Objection-only period: a conditional voting period that gets activated upon a “last-minute” proposal swing from defeated to successful, affording voters more reaction time. Only against votes are possible during the objection period." I don't understand why the against voters are getting priority and disagree with the narrative that the proposer can just go back up. That diminishes the extensive effort it takes to put a proposal up and campaign for it. Making it harder for proposers should not be an aim of any upgrade.

I also disagree that this fork process was needed. We've been pushed into this by those who seek only to arb the treasury, taking away time & valuable resources to meet their demands for a way to rage quit. The way has always been there and they have used it often to farm on Blur so the secondary market already provides the way out if desired.

Just follow the wise words of Poopie...."

benbodhi | "I like a bunch of the updates in this version, but I am hesitant with the ability to fork. I wrote some more here: https://paragraph.xyz/@benbodhi/what-the-fork-nouns-dao"

ABSTAINS - 8 VOTES

larga vida Nouns sent from voter.wtf

A historic moment.

whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.. and if it kills you, then it was never meant to be.

onwards to season 3!

seems like a timely update for the next cycle of growth

https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/914274551550304256

Protect the culture.

sent from voter.wtf

https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/883288256598683648

+1 noun40's reason. Grateful to the Verbs, and everyone who's worked and influenced this prop.

Very much looking forward to the next season of Nouns!

noun40.eth said it the best

+1 40 vwr

and thank you verbs team for the love and skill that went into this

(noun40 voting via agora)

the reason to add the fork mechanism is not to pay off arbitragers or to invite ppl that we don't agree with to leave. the reason to add the fork mechanism is to enable the factions that remain to coordinate with more trust.

let me elaborate. a fundamental tension that nouns has had to navigate from the very beginning of its existence is the fact that money buys influence in this supposedly public domain culture. culture is subordinate to money, explicitly. the deep rooted nouns fan who understands the culture better than anyone else has no say on what nouns art becomes canonical via droposals. that voting power is determined by wealth. this feels like a design flaw to many that are fans of the culture. this isn't anything new. the tension between art/culture and money/business is everywhere. nouns just happens to have its own version of this tension.

this existential tension really hit its peak for me earlier this year when I had to come to terms with the fact that the more financially minded folks within nouns will likely always end up with more votes. it's not a dynamic driven by the arb opportunity. the arb thing is just a side character in this whole story (though we give it disproportionate attention). this dynamic was brewing way before the arbers showed up and is simply driven by the fact that influence is bought in the first place and those with wealth are more financially minded. I've always viewed nouns as a public art & public software movement. I feared as governance started to tip over that ppl viewed nouns as such a public goods movement might just have to fold and give up if the majority starts ruling tyrannically with a different agenda. we could all attempt to sell our nouns in the secondary of course and try to regroup but who would buy hundreds of nouns at once? especially a version of nouns nfts that's experiencing mass exodus. at this time period (early this year) tensions were at their highest imo. the two sides of nouns would keep seeing shadows at every corner and assumed only the worst intentions of each other.

what ultimately gave me peace is the fork mechanism. once we landed on this direction and the verbs team started implementation I was able to put away my existential fears and start engaging within governance with a more cooperative mindset again. it fundamentally put both sides, the soon to be voting majority (finance) and the voting minority (culture), on an equal playing field. I'm not saying that the fork mechanism will necessarily cause a fork. my hope and expectation is that the fork mechanism's existence will allow for more good faith cooperation b/c both sides can gain from the other. the finance side can consent to spending more knowing that if it gets out of hand they can fork and leave with their share of the treasury. the culture side can get over the feeling of being ruled over and get back to enjoying and building culture in good faith knowing that they too could exit and continue with their share of the (smaller) treasury if things get really bad.

what I'm ultimately saying here is that I would benefit from the fork mechanism. not only just some opportunistic arbitrageur or some theoretical potential minority of the future but me here and now. this is why I'm voting FOR this proposal.

lastly, just to address the view that adding this fork mechanism would lead to endless arbitrage attempts. it might sound obvious but it's worth pointing out that the arb only exists when a positive gap between book value and auction price exists. unless you think auction price is going to be down only (which I fundamentally don't believe since there will be a price level where ppl buy nouns for the "art" the same way ppl buy crypto punks) then spending alone will gradually close the gap. just a steady auction price and a steady spending rate will inevitably result in the arb opportunity going away. of course that doesn't mean it's gone forever. whenever we experience a really elevated auction price that later then crashes we can end up in this place again. but that's more like every 4 years (rough crypto cycle) rather than constantly as many fear. yes there might be a quick "exit" (not really a fork) right after this mechanism is implemented. but the fear of profiteers shouldn't stop us from fundamentally improving our governance. we should take the step forward. I'm excited for season 3.

i support upgrading our software to better coordinate

https://deepfried.horse/2023/03/13/rage-quit/

thanks to the Verbs Team and to anyone who helped to design all these new features 🫶

Made a newsletter edition solely dedicated to the reasnoning on this vote: https://paragraph.xyz/@thebower/a-fork-in-the-road-nouns-dao-active-governance-11

sent from voter.wtf