ProposalsProposal 216
Mandated Round: Private Voting Research Sprint
Executed
For
166
Against
75
Abstain
19
Quorum: 87
Proposed by
0x9d41...9dd3
ProposalsProposal 216
There has been a surge of interest among Nouners to experiment with private voting.
The main benefit is freeing voters from biases and pressures. Voters don't have to fear the social costs of voting opposite of what their peers might expect. Furthermore, influential voters by default don't show their vote (they can still choose to share their vote), making it harder for others to copy their behavior, nudging more voters to develop original points of view.
The main concern is that private voting removes reputation cost, potentially leading to riskier voter behaviors. Furthermore, if the tally of votes is only known at the end of the voting period, it may increase voter apathy and lead to outcomes opposite the majority's preference.
We think the benefits are very valuable to Nouns and DAOs generally, meriting further exploration.
After several conversations with zero-knowledge folks, including the awesome Personae Labs (HeyAnoun), the conculsion is clear: there are no obvious solutions to private voting. Further research is required.
All the designs that have been suggested to us so far come with significant drawbacks; examples include requiring a central trusted party, requiring Nouners to pool their Nouns in a central contract, requiring a registration step before each proposal, linking Nouner balances to their votes, and a few more.
We are still a long way away from deciding if Nouns should use private voting and in what ways.
This round's goal is to better inform us on possibilities and limitations, such that in a few months we'll be able to decide if and how to experiment with private voting. By funding this research we're making private voting more attaintale for Nouns and other DAOs.
Should the DAO choose to continue down this path, we expect to have strong noun-pilled zk teams to help us get there.
Important to highlight: funding this round does not mean a decision to go all-in on private voting; it means we're interested enough in the possibilities for Nouns and other DAOs to take this single step forward.
See the full round spec and the pending prop house round for a deeper dive.
Funds are managed in a 3/5 Gnosis Safe managed by Elad, David, Solimander, Vapeape and Will.
We will activate the Nouns community to help raise awareness among all the zk gigabrains out there.
Beyond twitter, we would like to raise awareness through popular zk podcasts and newsletters.
To enable these marketing efforts we're asking for an additional budget of 20K USDC.
The budget might not be fully utilized, because we didn't fund 3 teams, or because we didn't need the full marketing budget. Any remaining funds will be sent back to the DAO once the round is done.
Nouns DAO is one of the most interesting corners on the internet right now, and it has a lot to do with our continuous iterations on protocols and tools. Let's continue being the first to do many things.
Let's be the first DAO to experiment with fully private voting on mainnet. Let's pave the path for other DAOs, and let's show everyone that we're on the frontier, that we're pulling the future faster towards us.
We will attract brilliant people through this round, who might get totally noun-pilled and accelerate us ever further. This round is a great reason for all of us to make a lot of noise and get Nouns a spike of attention.
This round will grow the set of people at the intersection of (a) caring about the future of crypto and (b) loving Nouns.
Huge thanks to Noun 40 for sparking this round and providing tons of ideas, feedback and support.
Huge thanks to Lakshman and DigitalOil; with their detailed inputs the round spec looks so much better.
Thank you Seneca for the feedback and all the prop house support in making this special round work well.
We're grateful for the tech pod's support of this proposal and anything else we do, namely Solimander, Vapeape and Will.
We are the verbs team, David and Elad, working full time on the Nouns protocol.
⌐◨-◨
There has been a surge of interest among Nouners to experiment with private voting.
The main benefit is freeing voters from biases and pressures. Voters don't have to fear the social costs of voting opposite of what their peers might expect. Furthermore, influential voters by default don't show their vote (they can still choose to share their vote), making it harder for others to copy their behavior, nudging more voters to develop original points of view.
The main concern is that private voting removes reputation cost, potentially leading to riskier voter behaviors. Furthermore, if the tally of votes is only known at the end of the voting period, it may increase voter apathy and lead to outcomes opposite the majority's preference.
We think the benefits are very valuable to Nouns and DAOs generally, meriting further exploration.
After several conversations with zero-knowledge folks, including the awesome Personae Labs (HeyAnoun), the conculsion is clear: there are no obvious solutions to private voting. Further research is required.
All the designs that have been suggested to us so far come with significant drawbacks; examples include requiring a central trusted party, requiring Nouners to pool their Nouns in a central contract, requiring a registration step before each proposal, linking Nouner balances to their votes, and a few more.
We are still a long way away from deciding if Nouns should use private voting and in what ways.
This round's goal is to better inform us on possibilities and limitations, such that in a few months we'll be able to decide if and how to experiment with private voting. By funding this research we're making private voting more attaintale for Nouns and other DAOs.
Should the DAO choose to continue down this path, we expect to have strong noun-pilled zk teams to help us get there.
Important to highlight: funding this round does not mean a decision to go all-in on private voting; it means we're interested enough in the possibilities for Nouns and other DAOs to take this single step forward.
See the full round spec and the pending prop house round for a deeper dive.
Funds are managed in a 3/5 Gnosis Safe managed by Elad, David, Solimander, Vapeape and Will.
We will activate the Nouns community to help raise awareness among all the zk gigabrains out there.
Beyond twitter, we would like to raise awareness through popular zk podcasts and newsletters.
To enable these marketing efforts we're asking for an additional budget of 20K USDC.
The budget might not be fully utilized, because we didn't fund 3 teams, or because we didn't need the full marketing budget. Any remaining funds will be sent back to the DAO once the round is done.
Nouns DAO is one of the most interesting corners on the internet right now, and it has a lot to do with our continuous iterations on protocols and tools. Let's continue being the first to do many things.
Let's be the first DAO to experiment with fully private voting on mainnet. Let's pave the path for other DAOs, and let's show everyone that we're on the frontier, that we're pulling the future faster towards us.
We will attract brilliant people through this round, who might get totally noun-pilled and accelerate us ever further. This round is a great reason for all of us to make a lot of noise and get Nouns a spike of attention.
This round will grow the set of people at the intersection of (a) caring about the future of crypto and (b) loving Nouns.
Huge thanks to Noun 40 for sparking this round and providing tons of ideas, feedback and support.
Huge thanks to Lakshman and DigitalOil; with their detailed inputs the round spec looks so much better.
Thank you Seneca for the feedback and all the prop house support in making this special round work well.
We're grateful for the tech pod's support of this proposal and anything else we do, namely Solimander, Vapeape and Will.
We are the verbs team, David and Elad, working full time on the Nouns protocol.
⌐◨-◨
I believe the most important task for Nouns DAO right now is to fund work that is charismatic to those we want to draw in. I think privacy tech is hugely important and charismatic in crypto broadly, and I expect it to be a core part of DAO-tech, in the future. I see DAO-tech as a core "Nounish" funding area.
So I am voting yes on this because I think the work is important and I am hopeful that Nouns investing here will draw in more like-minded thinkers and builders to the ecosystem.
I am uncertain about the usage in Nouns DAO, specifically. I can imagine a lot of ways in which private voting could make the DAO less healthy. But I think that (1) it is coming one way or another and we have a chance to invest and put our own spin on it (2) known personalities will win out in the long run and be the most popular delegates.
Thanks to David and Elad for their time putting this together!
Prop 216: YES WINS
24 Yes, 15 No, 2 Abstain
14 Nouncillors abstained from the decision
Vote Reasons & Discussion
Bigshot Klim | "i think that we owe some levle of honesty and feedback to the people that sownd their valuable time and energy dreaming up theiur peops a s putting them on chain. having a random toaster ir amcrocodile press no on hour dream without a reason is a good way tondrive away future builders"
profwerder | "We already have some big issue with Hey Anoun -- including legal concerns -- so before we get into more anonymous ways to libel people, maybe we pass it by the Foundation's legal team? Just a thought. This may do more harm than good and goes against transparency so maybe more thought and discussion is needed before we fund this much eth."
Classic_Craig | "I find this very interesting and would love to dive deeper and have solutions that allow for private voting."
Josep | "It seems to me that private voting is something important in order to improve governance, I agree with the proposal."
byhardy | "Excited to see what people come up with here!"
For more Nouns DAO proposal discussion head to the Nouncil Discord: https://discord.gg/nouncil
"We do not agree that Nouns DAO has a need for secret voting and believe secret voting in Nouns DAO would be detrimental to its culture and brand."
Nounders are signalling that IF private voting research is successful and a prop is on the verge of implementation - it will likely result in a veto. I think it's important we see this through all the way.
I don't see it as something that is absolutely necessary right now. It can wait for a better moment for this kind of ask.
Whether its implemented in Nouns or not (...provided someone can figure it out) this definitely would fall under the 'public goods' category and would be a good feature for DAOs to have available to them. So its a yes from me.
Im not smart enough to understand the implications of its implementation...
I like using mandated Prop house rounds to onboard new brains into Nouns eco too. The way the Verbs guys have structured this with a bit of budget put aside to promote more entries is good too.
I like this proposal because technical research is something that is lacking from Noun proposals. Nouns can become a leader in funding research of breakthrough technology. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out and how we can build on it.
There are good arguments for and against both sides but given what is to be most affected is the culture + brand of Nouns, I have to side w being more conservative and therefore vote against.
I fully support developing this... eventually. But I think its too big an ask in terms of ETH, with the market currently so low.
Would consider supporting in the future when market is back up. For now, any big ETH asks should have much better proliferation impact.
Voting Against to demonstrate the need for private voting is somewhat overblown.
On a more serious note:
Im a big proponent of nounsdao funding public goods, especially in the software/crypto/ethereum domain, so on the one hand, i love this initiative.
But Ive come to the conclusion that private voting acts to further dehumanize nounsdao, and that, on net, we gain from having faces (or avatars) attached to votes for as long as possible. I believe nounsdao is better off in a world where voting comes with some social pressure to take responsibility and publicly stand behind voting decisions. I acknowledge social pressure also swings the other way (relationship costs, nepotism, etc) but Im willing to make that tradeoff vs cold, faceless PvP.
Even though the prop clearly says that whether to implement private voting is still TBD, I think funding this prop would heavily signal that nounsdao want to also adopt private voting eventually.
I would be interested in funding a prop that is better at keeping nounsdao private voting at arms length from the research, but im somewhat vary that even that would lead to eventual/quicker implementation of private voting.
This is a difficult vote for me. I love the team and would love to see some work done with cool tech. But one of the coolest things about nouns from the beginning for me was the transparency in voting. It’s the first governance system I was even drawn to participating in and I have to say a big part has to be due to the transparency. I’m going to stay out of this one for now.
Nobody should feel they have to vote against their true opinion due to social pressure.
When voting is private, we're able to express our opinions and preferences without fear of retaliation. This can lead to a more diverse range of viewpoints being considered and ultimately result in better decision-making for Nouns. Additionally, private voting can also help prevent vote buying and manipulation, ensuring that the outcome of the vote truly reflects the will of the community.
I disagree with the nounders on this one.
there's a view that privacy is all about wanting "secrecy" and that it is a cloak that only the cowardly or the malicious want to put on to hide their shenanigans.
this view imo misses the real social issues real humans experience when voting completely transparently.
for example, once you get to know someone or some team it's hard to vote against a prop they put up even if you don't think they are the right person / team for the project (or don't agree with the aim of the project entirely) b/c it feels like you're rejecting them and that social pressure creates a social relationship cost to voting honestly (biasing towards voting yes or not voting).
another example is if you know you're going to put up your own prop soon or a contentious prop you care a lot about is coming up soon. in that case, you need to maintain friendly relationships with as much of the voter base as possible. voting your conscience in props leading up to the prop you want to win creates a real opportunity cost to voting honestly.
note that in both of these examples the voter is not trying to screw over the protocol public. they are an honest actor that simply would prefer to vote honestly for selfless reasons but the social costs or the opportunity costs of doing so lead them to vote (in the worst case) dishonestly.
I'm totally open to the possibility that ultimately the benefits of full transparency can outweigh the benefits of privacy and we can as a community decide to maintain the status quo.
but I would like to have the conversation before dismissing it out of fear. and we can't really have a concrete conversation if we don't know what's even possible. this round imo is a step to find that out.
We do not agree that Nouns DAO has a need for secret voting and believe secret voting in Nouns DAO would be detrimental to its culture and brand.
The only justification for this mandated round appears to be research for Nouns DAO. As we disagree with the need for this research, we don’t believe in directing funding to it.
There may be other groups which benefit from this research, and we welcome a new proposal that outlines their need and requests appropriate funding.